Fraser Health threatening to occupy the Chilliwack raw milk farm and dispose of the cows — Michael Schmidt

From Farmer Michael Schmidt:

Alice Jongerden with Michael Schmidt at a demonstration outside Fraser Health offices, around the time of the change of leadership at the Chilliwack farm. Thanks to Michael Schmidt for photo.

Debating until the cows are gone

It appears that people think we have a raw milk movement and the big question seems to be who is allowed to be a leader or not.

In case somebody thought I was frustrated or burnt out as mentioned on this blog, I am in good shape. I have no anxiety or competitive feelings in regards to the “visionary engagement” people develop. I think it is great.

In the meantime as this internet debate passionately rages on, Fraser Health is trying to flex it’s muscles to squash the Chilliwack cow share operation which was called Home-on-Range under the management of Alice Jongerden.

The cows are currently producing natural cosmetics for it’s shareholders, which we had clarified with Health Canada and Fraser Health.

Health Canada agreed that we can produce cosmetics from raw milk but we would not fall under their jurisdiction, because the way we structured the enterprise, no selling was taking place according to their definition.

Fraser Health in its relentless obsession to kill the operation staged last year another search on the farm, which resulted in contempt of court charges against me and Gordon Watson, despite an already filed charter challenge to be heard in December.

As Fraser Health searched the farm neither Gordon Watson or me were present nor did they find any dairy products for human consumption. They had been fully briefed about the structural changes of the farm and product changes in a face to face meeting already in 2010.

Two months ago they decided to go after the owners of the farm and are recurrently  threatening them with legal actions and confiscation of the cows.

According to their papers they will come and OCCUPY the Chilliwack farm to dispose of the cows any day NOW.

This has been happening despite the pending contempt of court case coming up on June 7th and 8th.

Authorities gone wild I would say.

Not all is bad in raw milk land.

On June 10 I will travel to Oregon to take part and speak at the official launch of one of the first Farm Share Co-Operatives in the US.

A new start, a new beginning for a wonderful farmer I met last fall at the Wise Traditions Conference.

I wish the raw milk movement lots of strength and positive energy to do what will benefit all those in need of good food.

Hopefully the passionate debate about the “reflections on the merits of a Canadian raw milk debate”( which is not really Canadian when you look at the panel) has created lots of interest to join the webinar.

Our high tech system here at the farm does not yet allow a participation in this new discussion forum.

Good luck.

Remember you can talk all day until one day the cows are gone, because we were too busy arguing.





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32 responses to “Fraser Health threatening to occupy the Chilliwack raw milk farm and dispose of the cows — Michael Schmidt

  1. In Judo there are certain poses where you sometimes “roll” with the enemy instead of always forcefully “opposing ” the enemy . So what does the “enemy” think it wants here? This is a rhetorical question .
    I say this because I hope and believe a BC NDP government will offer a saner alternative. But that is still a year away .

    • in Bill 37 now before the Legislature, the enemies of freedom made obvious their intention. Entitled the Animal Health Act it permits people wearing the Badge of Authority, to come on to any piece of ground in British Columbia, take the animals and dispose of them, with the excuse that they were diseased. Exactly as happened in Ontario with the CFIA taking the sheep, killing them, then saying later “oh well, they weren’t diseased anyway. Here’s a few bucks to compensate”.

      this is not about health : this is the communists putting in to effect the first plank of their manifesto = framing a law in mischief, as pretext for taking private property
      Our little private dairy has become the battlefront on this issue, of the right to use and enjoy our property

      • Bill 37 has been withdrawn in embarrassment, largely through the efforts of MLA Lana Popham, Agriculture Critic.

        And Gordon, as I’ve asked you before, can you please refrain from calling everything you don’t like “communist.” Totalitarian, yes. Fascist, perhaps. But if anything, these actions are anti-community, which is the root word of “communist.”

        The problem is not whatever “ism” with which you label something. The problem is when whatever form of government you have becomes destructive of the basic rights of the governed. And that can happen in any form of “ism.”

      • As an aside Raw Milk is legal in China and Cuba , the only obvious “communist” countries that come to mind. It is also legal in Sweden , a famously socialist country.

        But i agree with Jan about “isms”. It is obviously a uniquely North American/Australian disease. I see it as an outgrowth of “corporatism/monopolism” in North America more than anything. But the word “imperialist” sounds as corny as “communist” to me . Even Nazi or zionist are not appropriate words.

      • @Raoul, I think the obvious word we struggle for is “fascism,” which its founder, Benito Mussolini, said, “Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power.”

        Gordon seems to think that communists have set up our authoritarian system, but I say “follow the money” to see who is benefitting. That leads to the dairy cartel in the case of raw milk, and the large commercial salmon farms, in the case of Bill 37.

        If the government owned the large confinement milk and fish farms, I’d agree with Gordon’s label in a heartbeat. But they don’t, and so it ain’t communism.

  2. Today the tyrants are coming for your animals. I think it inevitable if we do not stop them, that they will eventually come for your family members. (Doubt it? What do you think the FEMA camps are for?) When are you going to draw the line and say not only no, but heck no to these criminals?
    Heed the words of Martin Neimuller while you still can,

  3. Gary

    It is scary to look around me and realize that so many people remain blissful of what is happening. I just finished ‘the Authoritatrians’ by Bob Altemeyer, and now have a better understanding of why we are loosing our rights so quickly. Expressing our opinions in a non-violent, but assertive way is a step in the right direction. Thanks for expressing your passion Michael.

  4. Raoul

    What about if all the members of the Chilliwack coop tie up the Fraser health authority in small claims court ? These would be individual actions not group actions. This way they would tie up Fraser health with 500 court cases ? They should at least sue for the the cost of becoming a coop owner plus legal expenses ? Not so much for the money but to make a point and of course for publicity and exposure. I don’t think it would cost that much to do that ? I am not sure if some should do this now or if all should do it in the event that Fraser Health shuts down the Chilliwack operation . Percy Schmeiser is the one that gave me this idea. As some organic coalitions in Saskatchewan first lost 300 000 $ trying to fight GMO”s going the conventional court way using a class action. Percy succeeded with this thousand-headed approach. He won a $700 judgement against Monsanto for cleanup costs . I don’t know how many have followed up since with it ? Too bad there are no statistics for who else did it and how they did it etc. So that we have a bit of a learning curve and higher success rate .

    • most interesting that the field for someone to “reply” to Jan Steinman’s comment is absent : a classic way that censorship works … allowing one side of a discussion, preventing the other being heard EVEN WHEN IT NAMES ME
      Either Mister Steinman is not familiar with the Communist Manifesto, or he is familiar with it, so has good reason to be embarrassed by nu sue of the term, against how communism actually plays out in practice : it kills steals and destroys everything it touches

      • unfortunately this forum is so buggered-up that once someone starts typing in to the ‘reply field, up pops the “fill in your details below” message, getting in they way so I cannot see what I’m actually typing = thus, the typos

    • the Our Cows cowshare is deliberatly NOT a co-operative. That would entail going to the Registrar of Companies and asking permission to be seen as a legal entity created by the government. Then we’d have to go through all the rig-a-ma-role of answering to the Minister year by year, as to what we do. We don’t need a permit from Her Majesty the Queen in right of British Columbia, to associate ourselves for the sake of carrying on a perfectly legal activity.

    • I think Raoul is really on to something here.

      If this is a bona-fide shared ownership situation, the owners should stand up and be counted, like the Kentucky co-op where members cut the police tape and took “their” milk from a cooler after the raid.

      As Benjamin Franklin said at the start of the American Revolution, “We must all hang together, or we will surely all hang separately.”

      I’ve long wondered why the lawyers don’t make the case of lack of legal standing in these cases. What the health authorities are doing is the equivalent of prosecuting the janitor for some crime a corporation takes.

      If the shareholders of Our Cows leave Alice, Gordon, and Michael out to dry, who will stand up for the shareholders when they can’t get this or that healthy food, or get arrested for growing a garden? The path to totalitarian fascism is slippery. You don’t know you’ve crossed a threshold until it’s too late.

      • Peter

        “Ownership” takes different forms, and thus has varying associated liabilities. A stock holder of “RIM shares” does not have the same liability as the member of the “board of directors”. The idea that “cow shares”, “farm shares” or “co-operatives” divest the principals / decision makers of liability is, imo, simply not well founded. As such, the equity share holders wouldn’t have standing to tie things up in the courts, as suggested…
        There are plenty of people who cherry pick ideas, throw mud against the wall, and hope something will stick. In deed, some of them even present themselves as being qualified to oversee how other construct their legal structure.
        And then, when the mud doesn’t stick, they typically cry foul (no justice – it is all corrupt, etc.). And then when attempt is made to share other, or broader perspectives, they might call it gibberish, or even intellectual diarrhea, lest their “original” idea is discovered to be left wanting.
        I find it unfortunate that the cows might be taken away… I find it equally unfortunate that debate/argument is dismissed as being futile because they are about to take some cows away. If you feel inspired to take up arms to stop their actions, do so at your own peril. As for me, I believe ideas are much more powerful than arms; The pen is mightier than the sword; The ink of a scholar is greater than the blood of a martyr; An idea who’s time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government.
        So what is the idea? Is the idea well thought through, or just another kick at the can, more mud on the wall (“cosmetics”, anyone? If that fails, perhaps we should try “pet food” 🙂 )?

  5. the latest information I have from COBC, is, that Bill 37 the Animal Health Act is still before the House, but that the govt. will not proceed with it. So it will “die on the table” as this session ends. Much to the credit of Lana Popham, MLA and a farmer, herself.
    As well, I was told today second-hand, that BC Minister of Agriculture McRae says that ‘he is not the one who originated that Act’. If true, that’s MOST interesting… whence would it come, then, if not from the Liberal administration? Who is big enough to compel the govt. to act as its puppet? Which gets me one step closer to finding out the genesis of the regulation which outlawed raw milk, behind the scenes, avoiding the govt. DUTY to consult with those of us directly affected.
    As for the word “communism” = I use it when appropriate. See the treatise AND NOT A SHOT IS FIRED’ by Jan Kozak, in which the communists spelled-out how they planned to infiltrate and subvert the Western nations, by setting up “Authorities”. Precisely as we have – now half a century later – in BC, as the Transit Authority / the Safety Authority / the Health Authorities etc. Nameless, faceless UNaccountable Quangoes* which have a syphon into the public accounts of the province, yet categorically pre-cluded from the Offence Act RSBC… above the law!! * Quasi-governmental agencies
    Karl Marx boasted “We shake our fist in the face of heaven” ..- if you’re irritated by the word “communist”, why is that? Do you not want to admit that Anti-christ communism blights everything it touches? Michael Schmidt will be out in BC at the end of the week .. your chance to ask him how it was, growing up under communism.

    • “if you’re irritated by the word “communist”, why is that?”

      I’m no friend of large-scale, centrally-planned power, no matter what “ism” organizes and controls it.

      But I do think it is important to use language accurately. Communism is formally defined as common ownership of the means of production. That is certainly not the agenda of the BC Liberal Government, which has been privatizing everything right and left.

      Gordon, I respect and appreciate your work toward legalization of raw milk, but I think when you mix it in with political philosophy, religion, and even race, you seriously dilute your impact in raw milk circles. I think you would be much more effective if you were able to focus on direct arguments regarding raw milk, and take your political philosophy and religion arguments to other venues.

      There are many people questioning the fundamental purpose and limitation of government — great! I have no problem with that. Keep their feet to the fire!

      But when raison d’État arguments become the primary justification for something like raw milk, you’re going to lose 80% of the audience who think government as it stands is more-or-less a good thing. Can we afford to adopt an essentially libertarian approach when most raw milk drinkers believe in things like dog catchers, public safety, and environmental regulation?

      It’s a lonely circle you’ve drawn around yourself, Gordon.

      • my old man used to say “there’s nothing so useless it can’t at least be used as a bad example” … your response, being a classic example of the ad hominem slur… a condescending throw-away impugning my style, so you don’t have to address the larger issues. I put up with that for about a decade in the (so-called ) Pro-Life movement … from people ostenisbly on the same side! I didn’t come here to win friends and influence people ” The role of the prophetic type is to tell people what they need to hear = the biggest frame of reference of all, is, that there’s a contest underway for the planet, in which the raw milk issue is one small front. The one-worlders have to de-property people, in order to impose their anti-christ vision. So who owns and controls the means of production – that’d be, the cows – is all-important. I keep referring to the Red Army stealing food from the Kulaks, as the prime example, becuase it’s irrefutable, even though people like you, hid that particular aspect of COMMUNISM from the West for half a century. How comfortable are you with it, now that it’s happening in your neighbourhood? “There is no worse Tyranny than that which is accomplished wearing the Badge of Authority”

    • Sarah T.

      Actually, “Quango” stands for quasi-autonomous NON-governmental organization. Often refers to agencies, boards and commissions (or ABC’s). The BC Human Rights Tribunal for example.

      Gordon, I disagree with you that this government action is communism. To me, what government is doing in its campaign against raw milk is pro-big-business fascism, which is on the diametrically opposite side (far right wing) of the spectrum. Gordon, do raw milk supporters have to be (right-wing) anti-socialist libertarians in order to belong to this movement?

      • Response to Sarah T
        No, you certainly don’t have to call yourself a libertarian, or fit in to any other semantic pigeon-hole, to please me. My policy is : I’ll work with anyone on a political issue, as long as they don’t try to stop me expressing myself as I feel called to. But, inevitably, what it gets around-to is : beginners whining at me “don’t you know you catch more flies with honey, than with vinegar?”. To which I’ve learned to reply = “I am not in the fly-catching business. I came here to chew bubblegum and kick ass. And I’m all out of bubblegum”.

        Following in the footsteps of Saint Ian the Nice, in which ‘getting along’ is the paramount virtue, is the religion of modern Canada, but it ain’t mine. If I had a $$ for every time I’ve heard that I’d be happily retired … with the covers pulled over my head, hiding out in some remote part of BC. But the sky fell in on me, 30 years ago in a custody+access battle, when the govt. took my children away completely illegally, and I’ve been taking on injustice since. I have had a few victories, exposing corruption, but you won’t see them on the front pages of the lap=dog press. This raw milk thing is a walk in the park compared with what I’ve been through. After about 15 years at it, there’s no doubt in my mind that the contest for public opinion has been won. On June 7th, in the Supreme court of BC at New Westminster, we’ll wipe the floor with Prosecutor Susan Beach. Then the legal wrangle will be over. After which, all that remains will be for people nicer that me, to find a face-saving way for the govt. to extricate itself.

        In 2001, I sat in on a lecture at UBC from one of the leading researchers on epigenetic trans-generational inheritance. It explained a lot about my approach to life. Especially, why, having been brought up hearing stories from my Dad, who’d fought his way up the Italian peninsula in WW2, I am disposed to be dead serious about repudiatin fascism. What most socialist babblers + dabblers don’t want to admit is ; red fascism and black fascism are 2 sides of the same coin. National socialism only very slightly differs from international socialism aka ‘communism’. So when I find myself living under red fascism, in the form of Health Authorities, set up over me precisely as is explained in the treatise AND NOT A SHOT IS FIRED, I have the measure of the enemy. But those who criticize my language, coming from their religious dedication to “nice-ness” … don’t. Thus, I have no time for children simpering at me “why can’t we all just get along?!’. After someone has stood beside me, watching as red fascist apparatchik Inspector Rod Asplin seized my food and poured it down the sewer, so he or she then has the bare minimum of a grasp of the facts, we’ll discuss strategy and what’s appropriate lingo.

        Do you think it’s just a co-incidence that the lawyer for Fraser Health Authority is Susan Beach, who spent most of her career paddling-around in the warm, obscenely-profitable puddles of the Human Wrongs industry ? I don’t. She’s been seconded from her usual task of wrapping the tentacles of govt. around people ( like my friend Arthur Topham) who dare to voice criticism of the Central Party Line on multi-faith-ism, now tasked with wrapping the state’s tentacles around us who dare to produce food for ourselves!. Both of which are essential aspects of the plan of race traitors who’ve insinuated themselves into the high places for imposing communism upon us. And if you’re shocked & appalled at me having the temerity to use the “R” word, telling it like it is, that just indicates how far off the pace you are, understanding what’s going on.


        Gordon S Watson June 5 2012

    • Peter ; ideas don’t become perfectly full-blown, immediately, ie “main-streamed”. With very rare exception, ideas go through iterations of constant improvement. In 2007, we considered presenting raw milk as “pet food”, but I dicarded that notion. I was, and still am confident, that asserting the right to use and enjoy our property, will put the commies to flight … it did yesterday, wehn they forfeited the match

    I just do not believe people, especially at the lower levels, are that sophisticated to work for a “particular ideology”. Most folks are fairly simple . They simply want to protect their paycheck and pay their mortgage and kids schooling .
    If you have to , I would use NAZI in the sense of “blind servitude” as opposed to serving a particular political “ISM”. I personally would be more apt to use the phrase “military-industrial-pharmaceutical” complex – an old boy’s network simply scratching each other’s back and protecting each other’s interests and profits . Yes , I know people are also heavily invested in talking about the “Illuminati , banksters, Rothschild’s and various royalty and bloodlines” but Europe has all that and still allows RAW MILK ??? So it may not apply to the BC raw milk example . I think because North America is a younger society the deep roots in traditional food cultures never existed like they do in older cultures . In Europe this acts as a kind of ” ring fence” to keep out greedy pharmaceutical and agricorps and GMO companies from poaching on the basic food supply and food traditions of the local people . Yes, I know we have the Milk Boards in Canada . But the way the Dairy board colludes with the Health Ministries of the various provinces to co-produce this unique “Canadian-style” fear-based propaganda is unquestionably an outgrowth of the pharmaceutical-industrial complex’s inordinate power and not “communism”. I believe the government is in servitude to the corporations and not the other way around ? To me the word communism , or my take on it , implies servititude to the government primarily . Yes we are in servitude to the government which in turn is in servitude to the corporations and banks.

  7. MakeStrong

    I think the problem of blind servitude to corporations, or to government which nowadays takes its directions from corporate interests rather than citizens, very much pervades life today.

    We must remember that corporations are not humans, and though you can educate a human (with difficulty) you cannot educate a corporation except, perhaps, if you have some way to reach into its internal mechanisms. Corporations tend to be more set in their ways than humans! They are like a programmed machine. So we may be playing ‘whack a mole’ for a long time.

    Now a machine may be able to carry on far longer than a human being, but on the other hand we can try to understand how to make that machine fail or run out of fuel.

    Machine or human that is preventing free cooperation of human beings — What else can you do, except persistently stand up against the wrong. Talk alone will not suffice.

    • well, a lot of talk plus keeping right on milking for 4 years, has prevailed in British Columbia

      Fraser Health Authority has fled the field ; the court date which had been set for this Thursday June 7th, has been adjourned “generally” by consent of all parties, on the initative of Fraser Health’s lawyers. That means = no date set for continuance. I say = It’s all over but the crying = on their part!

      I was called this morning 11:30 by Bob McQuisten, of Stewart McDanold Stuart, the lawfirm prosecuting me on the allegation that I committed contempt of the Court Order in the case of Fraser Health & Jongerden et al. file 124618 BC Supreme Court at New Westminster. Mr McQuisten told me that Susan Beach, the lawyer who was handling the case, has “taken ill”…. I don’t believe that for a second. What actually happened is ; I kicked her silly ass around the block in the last round in Court ( April 20th 2012 ) then hammered her some more in my final Response, so badly, that she quit. She’s venal, but she’s not stupid. It must have become overwhelmingly-clear to her, and to those from whom she takes direction, that what I said about her continuing in the face of “no evidence / abuse of process” amounted to the crime of obstruct / pervert /defeat Justice. So she bailed-out rather than take her lumps in front of a judge. Another classic demonstration of what happens when one of the spineless, gutless little girls who infest the fetid backwaters of the Human Wrongs Industry, finally encounters reality in the form of an authentic British courtroom.

      I’m kinda disappointed … I had a real good schpiel worked up. but that’s OK …

      The REAL MILK is flowing in British Columbia from now on, without let nor hindrance from those idiots


      Praise God!!

      Gordon S Watson
      Justice Critic, Party of Citizens

  8. MakeStrong:
    It is ironic that , Canadians are getting it, and standing up to the wrong of pasteurization of milk and of low food quality in the conventional supermarkets , by leaving it in droves. The rate of milk consumption is declining 1% per year the past 20 years or more . This is putting the agropharmaceutical GMO complex in a frenzy . What are they doing ?
    In the US Monsanto has bought up most of the organic seed companies. So maybe they hope to “reach into the internal mechanisms” of the good guys and make them less or non-competitive with their highly profitable terminator seed ?
    In Canada , the dairy boards are in a frenzy as well but their response is similarly insane. They are going after and bullying tiny herdshares that barely comprise 0.1% of the market instead of analysing how they can make their product better and healthier and thereby increase or regain lost market share.
    If anything it is these tiny dairy herdshares that focus on grass-feeding of the cows and goats, and staying away from drugs and vaccinations, that hold the solution to improving quality and increasing market share for all players .
    The bureaucratic beast has no means of “Self-analysis” or “Self-reflection” or ,more importantly, “Self-Improvement” . It simply seeks to destroy anything that is different or that it is not understand.

    • Raoul, it makes perfect sense once you understand that the plan at the top levels is eugenics and to make you sick.

      Due your due diligence and learn what United Nations agenda 21, and the codex are really all about. Why do you think the worlds leaders met at Chantilly VA this past weekend?
      Really.. think about it and it’s implications.

      • I find nothing more of value here, and am unsubscribing from this blog. Those who matter have my email address — let me know if anything of substance happens.

    • I find it sad Jan that as scripture says you do not have eyes to see nor ears to hear. But you are certainly not alone.

  9. Sarah T.

    Could it be that Fraser Health is taking the position that this anti-real-milk lawyer takes here at ? Maybe this is the legal position they’re taking? Did they get legal advice telling them this? That it’s a simply a way to get around the law and hence they figure they will win in court? 😦

  10. In response to Gordon S Watson’s post: “my old man used to say …”
    I really like you attitude my friend. I would trade a 1,000 of the sheeple for one more of you. The world is such a screwed up place because people will not stand for anything, and they will not say what needs to be said. I think we both at least try on that account.

    You are spot on with your rebuttal and I applaud you LOUDLY.
    Ayn Rand had a good take on communism……
    “Communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism — by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide.”

  11. Brother Jan Steinman :
    If you have any ideas to improve the moderation and content on this blog please contact the Bovine Editor . He is reasonable and DOES listen . We all value and have greatly appreciated your input and are very sad to hear that you are leaving the Bovine blog family.

    I , myself, am at a loss as to how it could be further improved other than to just keep highly focused on your own positive and constructive message and the messages of those you are in tune with and whose message contents you resonate with.

    Canadian Raw Dairy Consumer Advocacy Group

    • the forum could be improved by refraining from censoring the most pungent points : for instance when I said { snip } I wanted to convey the idea that { snip } but now, gentle readers are prevented from getting the facts and thinking for themselves. What was it Herbert Spencer said ? something like ‘the result of censorship is to make all men fools”. The real problem with it, is, with scissors in hand, to the censor, the whole world looks like { snip } [ snip ] ( snip )

  12. Gordon said: Peter ; ideas don’t become perfectly full-blown, immediately, ie “main-streamed”. With very rare exception, ideas go through iterations of constant improvement. In 2007, we considered presenting raw milk as “pet food”, but I dicarded that notion. I was, and still am confident, that asserting the right to use and enjoy our property, will put the commies to flight … it did yesterday, wehn they forfeited the match”
    Yes, at least for me – learning is a very iterative process Gordon. I am glad to hear that you ditched the effort to present real milk as pet food. That would be expedient, ill advised, and cowardly. One has to have core principles and be willing to go to bat for them. To compromise is to lose IMHO.

    I think, or at least I hope, that each reader here believes that it is their decision, and their decision only, to decide what you put into your body or what not to put into your body. All I am saying is – not to be expedient, and to stand strong for that right which you know you have. That and do not underestimate the evil intent of your enemy. Never underestimate an enemy if you wish to prevail.

    • hermes

      I agree with the original poster who used the word ‘communism’. Who cares what you call it? It is the power of the State against i dividual and group property rights enforced through coercion. Doesn’t matter what you call the thugs. They are all the same. As a anarchist-leaning libertarian I have given up on all parties, especially Christie Clark’s ‘liberal’ government. We are a timid far too patient peoe in Canada.

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